June 27, 2007

New recreational rules introduced for Willow Creek (Indian Graves) area.

Quote::

Visitors to Willow Creek this long weekend are asked to note the new rules: - Camping is permitted in designated areas only and may not exceed 14 days. New signs will mark these areas. - On-highway vehicles exceeding 363 kg are only permitted to be used to transport people and equipment to camping and staging areas on routes designated by signs. - Off-highway vehicles heavier than 363 kg are not permitted in the FLUZ. Motor vehicles that weigh 363 kilograms (800 pounds) or less are still permitted within the Willow Creek FLUZ. - Contravening provisions within the regulations can lead to the issuance of violation tickets and/or required court appearances where offenders could face a maximum fine of $1,000. Morton said it's important to recognize that this is the first step toward a broader access management plan for the Livingston-Porcupine Hills-Willow Creek region.

I wonder where the big-wheel trucks will go this weekend?

I hear Ted has a big back yard!

I bet they'll still go to IG if they were planning on it as I don't think many people will know so soon.

800 lbs dry weight. Guess side by sides like the Rhino are no go then. Not good. And bringing this out now, just 2 days before the long weekend?? If they start booting people out and handing out fines, and like Ronin said, no one knows about the new regulations, this might get nasty.

Well, looks to me that McLean is being sacrificed to the big trucks. Puke.

Keep em outa Waiparous/BT to the north, keep em outa Willow Creek/Livingston/IG to the south...where do you think the Calgary area trucks are going to go? D'uh.

Yep, I'm convinced McLean is being sacrificed. Puke, double puke.

MeYammy wrote:

Well, looks to me that McLean is being sacrificed to the big trucks. Puke. Keep em outa Waiparous/BT to the north, keep em outa Willow Creek/Livingston/IG to the south...where do you think the Calgary area trucks are going to go? D'uh. Yep, I'm convinced McLean is being sacrificed. Puke, double puke.

Not trying to start anything but.......what do you mean by 'big trucks'. Is a Rino a 'big truck'? Is a stock Jeep on 235/75/15's a big truck? Is my Jeep on 35's a big truck? A stock 1 ton has taller tires than my Jeep, with 3 times the ground pressure. Which one will sink deeper first? Now put your foot into it. Try the same thing on a 800cc quad with Mudzillas. It's all in the attitude/education of the rider/driver! Now.....take a look around the next time your out. Count the number of quads, bikes, and full size rigs you see. The ACTUALL percentage of trail users in full size 4x4's is VERY low. Don't take my word for it, see for yourselves. If anything is being sacrficed, it is our right(as tax payers), access to public lands!!!!

Totally agree somethingwicked about attitude. But the memorable actions of a few and media manipulation that occured on Victoria Day trump logic and reason and consultation. It's the last of those three that should cause us to go after government, as you say why ban side-by-sides?

My fear is that the big-wheel mudders will head to the places that are not yet under such a restriction (e.g. Crowsnest Pass, McLean). The resulting damage will make the front page, and here we go again.

I've not ridden IG that much, but my impression is that it isn't as rocky and dry as other places. Is that true? Is there any validity to the weight restriction?

Okay, my short, mad reaction did not paint a comprehensive picture of my whole impression regarding this announcement.

I am frustrated about the ongoing committment by the gov't to impose access restrictions in the OHV use areas as a whole, and specifically hate the focus on really limited access for trucks, which already has concentrated them in McLean and IG this year.

I am not slaming the trucks, but if they all suddenly are concentrated in McLean, they will not be such a small percentage of trail users any longer. And I personally witness SOME of them trenching out the trails to depths that turn shallow water spots into ferry crossings each and every time I ride in spring and summer months. Believe me, I do look around carefully and pay close attention to what ALL KINDS of OHV riders/drivers are doing to the trails, meadows, ponds, streams, etc... and yeah, there are abusers using all kinds of equipment, trucks, quads, side-by-sides, and two wheelers. Some random campers leave their garbage stewn about, which is just as bad as trenching out a trail.

But the big mud trucks are indeed the most visible and with huge, deep lug mud tires can cause more rutting than quads (often has to do with the way "SOME" drivers rip snort through mud holes and wet spots on the trails). As gadzuk says, with a concentration in one location, it will be so much easier for the media to catch them in action, paint a really nasty picture, and the mis-guided public opinions will drive even more OHV access restrictions.

The weight restriction takes a page out of the Oregon regulations....this reads as a hasty stop-gap, knee-jerk reaction that was pulled together in a desperate attempt to keep a political promise to the public that something would be done in response to the Victoria Day long weekend events.

This new set of recreational rules does nothing to prevent 5000 people from concentrating at IG this weekend and partying hard and leaving massive piles of garbage behind.

Be interesting to hear what happens in the aftermath.

Well said MeYammy.

But they've outlawed random camping, "camping in designated places only". It'll be tough to squeeze 5000 people in.

Wonder where they will all go when they get turned away tomorrow night? Betcha they won't go home.

Today's follow-up article from the Calgary Herald including interviews with Morton and AURS.
www.canada.com/calgary...=45057&p=1

Can anyone clarify the 800 lbs??? Does this mean I can't drive my Polaris at Indian Graves?? With both front and rear bumpers, front and rear storage boxes plus me sitting on it, the quad and I are over 800lbs. Are they going to have a weigh scale at the gates or something??

It's specified as 800lbs or less DRY on the actual website. So I would think you're safe. It's obviously a number they arrived at to include all ATVs but nothing more. Mind you the Popo Stealth 800 Deluxe supposedly tips the scales at 802lbs dry & the 6X6 is almost 900.

I think its basically saying no 4x4's...

..and no Rhinos!

The no Rhino's is B.S. If you read the regs for winter riding in Maclean it states no four wheeled vehicles over 1000lbs allowed in the winter. I rode my Rhino there all last winter without hassle from the CO's. I was stopped for ins. and they never hassled me. They just asked questions about how I liked it. I know the Rhino is just over 1000 pounds and quite a bit over 800 but what is the difference? Why 2 different regulation weights. I think I am going to plead ignorance as to the weight of my Rhino if I ever get stopped down there. I'm not buying another machine just to ride in one of my favorite riding areas.