Here is some hill climbing video of the OX with hyrdostatic drive.

not working

Worked for me

After watching this vid I am not so convinced to buy an argo or mudd-ox.If this guy can drive (in the video) the mudd-ox would spin at the bottom of the "big hill" on the way to my moose grounds.Now I'm sure that with tracks this would be a different story.......................my brute with tracks I would walk up that hill too.............if this video is a good indication of the mudd-ox's performance then for me "no thanx .................. way too expensive to just sit and spin" if my impression is wrong or my apprehension is misplaced please let me know!

P.S. I meant no dis respect to the person who posted.......................this is a good vid but shows a lack of traction and causes me (and I'm sure others) to think the mudd-ox is one expensive piece of !~@# !! (crap ............spelled with an s lol).....this is just my disappointed opinion!!

Bill

I own an argo and not to bash mudd-ox but they do have too much spin for what they were designed for. with this much traction on the ground you don't want tire spin that is why i went with an argo slow and steady wins the race in this case. less tire spin means you keep your traction under you not throwing it all over the place and break through to the smooth under surface and start slipping.

I am not sure what spinning you are talking about, tire spin or counter rotation for turning. For comparison the Mudd-Ox is true 8 wheel drive vs Argo 4 at a time. You can apply as much power to each side as you want and can go as slow as you want so as not induce tire spin, you can make it crawl as slow as you want. The counter rotation allows you to steer places you can't with an argo to go between trees etc. As it has a CVT you can use full engine power and only apply hydraulic power as you need it which makes it very easy to control. Having owned both I am confident the argo could not have climbed this particular hill because of the maneuvering necessary.

BFBill650i wrote:

After watching this vid I am not so convinced to buy an argo or mudd-ox.If this guy can drive (in the video) the mudd-ox would spin at the bottom of the "big hill" on the way to my moose grounds.Now I'm sure that with tracks this would be a different story.......................my brute with tracks I would walk up that hill too.............if this video is a good indication of the mudd-ox's performance then for me "no thanx .................. way too expensive to just sit and spin" if my impression is wrong or my apprehension is misplaced please let me know! P.S. I meant no dis respect to the person who posted.......................this is a good vid but shows a lack of traction and causes me (and I'm sure others) to think the mudd-ox is one expensive piece of !~@# !! (crap ............spelled with an s lol).....this is just my disappointed opinion!! Bill

I posted the video in question and I can honestly say I was still in the learning stages of operating a Mudd-Ox in this video. Funny thing is I know which part you are talking about - where I am coming toward the camera and I stall for a second and my tires spin- but what you failed to notice was the ability to back up and reposition myself (instantly)on a hill to get a better line. Now, I could crawl that hill and maneuver around without spinning a tire and that is just because of time and experience. A Mudd-Ox is a very simple rig to jump in and drive but it takes a little time to learn how to properly use the hydrostatic drive to obtain the optimum performance.
Still, even though the video has flaws it still shows the Mudd-Ox maneuvering up a steep hill in ways impossible for an Argo. I have had to push Argo's up hill's before because they were unable to turn on a switch back while gaining elevation. Think about it - Argos are only a 4 wheel drive 8 wheeler and in order to turn you have to apply brakes to one side of the machine. Therefore, the machine has to fight the brakes on one side when trying to turn while going uphill. The Mudd-OX doesn't rob power from the engine while climbing in this manner. In fact I can slow one side down more than the other and maneuver on hills with all 8 wheels driving.
The Mudd-Ox might resemble the Argo Avenger but that is were the comparison ends. The designer of the Mudd-Ox didn't want to reinvent the wheel he just wanted to improve on some of the Argo's short comings. Let's face it Argo has dominated the amphib market for a long time but they still have a few short comings. One of these shortcomings is the mechanical skid-steer system; 40 years ago it made sense because hydraulics were heavy and expensive but not anymore, hydraulic systems are smaller and more cost effective. So, I don't think it is even fair to compare the Mudd-Ox and an Avenger because they simply use inferior outdated technology. A more legit comparison would be with the Centaur because of its hydraulic technology.

Speaking as a professional plant operator, it was obvious that this was a fairly early use of this machine.
With more experience, more "feel' for what the tyres are doing will become apparant. Many inexperienced skid steer operators become undone when it's wet and hilly. Too many revs and too much torque going through the wheels/tracks stops them.
As you become more used to it, you'll make it look better. I agree that the mud-ox is more technically advanced than the argo. I also agree that the Argo's slow and steady approach gets them there, just like they have for the last fourty years.
What is best is really up to the individual and there needs and budget.
Either machine is a contender. Beside, competition is good for the consumers.

Argos are only a 4 wheel drive 8 wheeler Actually you are miss informed. it is a true 8 wheeler and no longer robs power the new HDI modles have a direct drive transmition so no more idler chains to *beep* with as well as a slip differential it only "spins" in low now, if you are in high gear it actually ratchets the transmittion and allows dor much smoother turning on normal driving conditions. i do admit that it still locks one side up when you want to spin in place or pivot, but switching between left side and right side drive is no slower than a mud ox due to the fact that there is always dive power being applies to both sides weather or not your using it is the question.

I am in no means bashing mud-ox that as a moderator would be un fair and un just to do so . I do own an argo and have been more than impressed with it. I have only seen vids of an OX in action and from a distance out at jimm creek. So I can not really comment on the capabilities of them. I know that Weasel wants to do a head to head comparason of the two machines just for fun of course. I believe that it would be interesting . Of course it would come down to driver abiitiy to know his machine and what they can do with them so maybe the argo guy drive the muddox and the mudox guy drive the argo. Who knows . Any way i am not knowcking the OX but i do know that from watching the vids I could not handle that high pitch annoying hydrolic whine!!!

robinhoodpse wrote:

Argos are only a 4 wheel drive 8 wheeler Actually you are miss informed. it is a true 8 wheeler and no longer robs power the new HDI modles have a direct drive transmition so no more idler chains to *beep* with as well as a slip differential it only "spins" in low now, if you are in high gear it actually ratchets the transmittion and allows dor much smoother turning on normal driving conditions. i do admit that it still locks one side up when you want to spin in place or pivot, but switching between left side and right side drive is no slower than a mud ox due to the fact that there is always dive power being applies to both sides weather or not your using it is the question.

Have you seen what Argo is calling counterrotation in their new HDI? It is pathetic as far as I am concerned all they did was do Mudd-Ox a favor by pricing these things higher. Next explain to me how you are able to turn your FULLTIME 8 wheel drive avenger? It can't be good for the machine to apply brakes to a side that is still driving!
That is why argo operators have to wiggle their handle bars or sticks back and forth in the mud to shift the power from side to side (as I am sure you are aware of). All in an effort to be a true 8 wheeler. From what I know about an argo transmission they have to drive only four wheels in order to turn with their mechanical skid steer system.
And how does an argo switch between sides just as fast as a mudd-ox? I don't think you understand the mudd-ox doesn't have to switch its power back and forth from side to side it is always available at all 8 wheels. Unlike the argo, so really their is no comparison there.
I understand you are trying to stay unbiased but I don't think you have made any effort to learn more about the mudd-ox. I have extended an open invitation for you to come check one out and I still have not heard a response. It is no secret that Jason is your boy and your allegience lies with argo. I think you should just educate yourself a little bit about the competition before you say things like: "not to bash mudd-ox but they do have too much spin for what they were designed for". Come check one out and drive it before you past judgement. Because a mudd-ox's hydrostatic drive allows the operator to spin the tires as slow as the operator wants. I think you will find that argo is unable to crawl as slow because of the drive system. Also a mudd-ox is way quieter than you think. I think you are grasping at reasons not to like it without trying it for yourself.

The machine would probably have less spin if the tires were on in the right direction too... The tread is definitely directional and they are reversed (probably for when floating...). I know my atv tires have much more traction going forward than in reverse. I'm guessing it is because they clean out better when faced the right direction.

Maybe split the difference and have two on each side going opposite of the other two...

Yes the tires are mounted in" tractor mode" for mud clearing performance,the same problem a four wheeler has mounting them in the other direction. We can solve the whole traction issue lets take a Mudd-Ox and an Avenger and hook them together with a tow rope and have tug a war, no doubt in the end who has the power and traction, kinda of a winner take all. The argo vs Mudd-Ox discussion will go just like Yamaha vs Honda or whatever as both of them can do the job. Argo has years of experience but until the HDI there have been very few major changes in many years and the verdict is still not out on it. The Mudd-Ox is taking the AATV to the next level and welcome the Argo competition and as somebody stated the competition is great for the end consumer. I personally may have as many hours driving a Mudd-Ox as anyone except the factory and I still have not figured out the limitations. I used it on a moose hunt this year and the performance was without question impressive, a full moose and 3 adults and going everywhere we wanted. I only got stuck once and that was with a very heavy loaded Fat rat trailer and I merely unhooked the trailer drove the Ox out turned around winched the trailer out re hooked and away we went. As a previous Argo owner I had many hours in an Argo before the Mudd-Ox and there really is just not a fair comparison in performance. It would be fun to do a head to head anyone can feel free to set a time and place. These discussion are fun for all and we all win from them
Mark

I do appriciate the compatition and yes Jason is my boy he has really trated me well as a costomer. No I am not grasping at straws but have heard some things about the Ox that i will not talk about on here that have turned me off of them and to tell you it wasn't anything that had to do with the machanical capabilities. I have not responded to your invite to come check out the Ox, not out of looking for reasons not to like it. Just do to life things I havn't even taken my Avenger out since july AHHHH. Life sucks some times. As some may say that I am taking this personal. Some could say that about your comments AKFISHHUNTER. Look weather I am friends with Jason or just some other joe shmoo with an AATV is besides the point. I am trying to keep this forum open to all AATVs because lets face it WE are in a class all of our own and to be honest between the two machines nothing can touch them in the woods so instead of bickering between each other we should just band together

I am sorry for making it seem personal. I guess all I want is for you to come down and check them out before passing judgement. It was wrong for me to bring your relationship with Jason into this but I feel your "Moderator title" gives you credibility on the Mudd-Ox that is probably not deserved. Only saying this because you have not even driven one yet- and I do mean only in the case of the Mudd-Ox because you seem very knowledgeable on Argos! Furthermore, to this point you have seemed like one of the biggest opponents of the Mudd-Ox on this and other forums. So for the Jason comment I am sorry. I agree "WE are in a class all of our own and to be honest between the two machines nothing can touch them in the woods so instead of bickering between each other we should just band together" and I hope you can find some time to get out in your avenger here soon. Maybe if you find any time you can shoot me a email and I will bring a mudd-ox out for you to see.